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 71 
 on: July 13, 2014, 07:52:54 PM 
Started by MichaelBR1965 - Last post by MichaelBR1965
I hope you are barking up the wrong tree (no offence) lol as I'm banking on it being the other Isabel girl (Wheldon) born 1713 who married my ancestor William Parker (born 1714) in Whickham in 1736  8)
To add the confusion, the parents of the William Parker (born 1714) are William Parker (born 1672) who married a certain  Isabel Burris (born 1685) !!!

 72 
 on: July 13, 2014, 06:33:31 PM 
Started by MichaelBR1965 - Last post by Geoff
     Here's another angle on this family which you might fond interesting.  We seem to have a Barras family from Whickham who were comfortably enough off to be able to afford a marriage licence, and one of whose relatives, John Barras the bondsman, called himself a "gentleman".  While this is by no means proof of anything, it seems at least a distinct possibility that the family is the Barras family, one of whom started a brewery in Gateshead which became quite large and was the leading one of the five which eventually merged to become Newcastle Breweries.

     The information I have takes the brewery family back only to John Barras who married Ann Leaton at Whickham on 18 May 1739 - by licence, of course.  The Leatons were also local "gentry".  Your Isabell was aged 22 in 1739 and so seems to have been born around 1717 and therefore to have been of the same generation as the John I have just mentioned.  I therefore suggest that perhaps they were brother and sister!

     John Barras (married 1739) was the father of John Barras (1742-1811), a corn merchant, a partner in a glass manufacturing firm and who started up a tobacco company, in other words a sort of "general businessman".  His son, John Barras (1784-1861) started the brewery, made it a success in Gateshead, then moved to the Tyne Brewery by the river in Newcastle and then merged it with the others.  He became the first Chairman of Newcastle Breweries Ltd and was a JP.  One of this John's sisters, Isabella, married Stephen Reed;  her descendants eventually more or less took over Newcastle Breweries and provided several generations of Directors.

     Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree - or perhaps you really are related to the founders of what is now Scottish and Newcastle Breweries!

                                             Geoff Nicholson


 73 
 on: July 13, 2014, 10:43:03 AM 
Started by MichaelBR1965 - Last post by MichaelBR1965
I may be getting closer to the truth after a bit of research :-

According to "ancestry" "find my past" and "family search" , William Parker married Isabell Barras of Whickham at St Margarets Durham City on February 17, 1738.

However, Durham Records Online Records state it was the following year in a Marriage Bond :-

Marriage Bonds, Durham Diocese
Record Number: 387573.14
Denomination: Anglican
17 Feb 1739 William Parker (gentleman), age 26, of Dunston Bank, Whickham obtained a licence to marry Isabell Barras, age 22, of Whickham, directed to St.Mary, South Bailey, Durham City
Surety: John Barras, gentleman, of Whickham
[Note: married 17 Feb at St.Mary.]


So either the 3 sites or Durham Records have the date wrong (more frustration) but if it is 1839 as Durham Records state, then it could be significant. Why would a man from Dunston Bank marry a girl from Whickham in Durham City unless it was a shotgun wedding ? The fact that her father paid the money for the bond seems to confirm this.

Thomas Parker is born exactly 6 months after the 1839 marriage date.

That would leave Isabel Wheldon of Whickham who married William in Whickham itself, as the mother of Thomas Parker from 1750.

There certainly seems to be evidence that there were 2 competing William & Isabel Parker families in the mid 1700s producing children in Whickham. At first it seems to follow the classic one family pattern of 2 year gaps between each birth until you get to 1743 :-

births :-

1737 Jane bapt. 3 July
1739 Thomas  bapt 26 August
1741 George bapt 1 Mar
1743 William bapt 1 Jan   
1743 Elanor bapt 11 Feb
1745 Thomasine bapt 24 Feb
1747 Dorothy bapt 11 Oct
1750 Thomas bapt 9 Dec
1753 John bapt 6 August
1757 Isabel bapt 15 May

Isabell Wheldon was born in 1713 and Isabell Barras in 1717 so had roughly the same child bearing years.

Of course, trying to separate the kids between the 2 families (apart from the 2 x Thomas kids which, ironically, has proven to be the easiest in the end) is the difficulty.

I believe marriage bonds were expensive and would have been beyond the means of my ancestors judging by the general labouring jobs they did at the time and through the 1800s so maybe the other family (John Barras who paid the surety , had money and I should check records of wills etc)

Anybody care to offer their opinion on the possible rubbish I have written above ? Thanks

edit : just realised , of course this was all before the Gregorian Calendar shift in 1752 so February 1738 to August 1739 were only 6 months apart as the year ended on March 26th.

 74 
 on: July 13, 2014, 10:42:33 AM 
Started by MichaelBR1965 - Last post by MichaelBR1965
     Have you done the obvious thing and looked at the burial register for the two candidates for the father, starting with their likely date of birth and going up to their supposed wedding?  Very many children died in infancy or in early childhood so when dealing with any two people there is always the possibility that one can be eliminated because they died young.

                                            Geoff

Yes I have Geoff - I eliminated the 1739 Thomas parker on the first page of this thread :) - he died in 1740.

 75 
 on: July 13, 2014, 09:01:09 AM 
Started by MichaelBR1965 - Last post by Geoff
     Have you done the obvious thing and looked at the burial register for the two candidates for the father, starting with their likely date of birth and going up to their supposed wedding?  Very many children died in infancy or in early childhood so when dealing with any two people there is always the possibility that one can be eliminated because they died young.

                                            Geoff

 76 
 on: July 12, 2014, 10:55:54 PM 
Started by MichaelBR1965 - Last post by MichaelBR1965
That's another useful tip I'll have to remember - thanks once again, didn't know that about naming kids after grandparents and parents in a particular order - my family over the generations certainly did not do that but then that's typical of us to not follow the basic rules and go off in an crazy direction.  :p

 77 
 on: July 12, 2014, 09:27:39 PM 
Started by MichaelBR1965 - Last post by GenKen
Quote
I don't mean to sound off but what I really want to know is when was the father , Thomas Parker born and who were his parents ? The kids and their order of birth , although interesting , isn't directly related to my research.

As with football when you are level on points you need to decide it on goal difference, therefore knowing the names and order of the children although not 100% can be very useful in determining who their parents may be. With the first 6 children named after 4 grandparents and 2 parents it is down to brothers and sisters (goal difference). If the two William/Isabel marriages had been further apart and the first pair had a son called Adam before the second pair married there would be a good chance that they were Thomasís parents and he named his son after his brother and you would have been on your way to solving your problem especially if the second couple did not have a son Adam. Unfortunately, on this occasion young Adam was named after Jane THOMPSONís brother and John after Thomasís brother.

You wonít get much information on PRís until 1798 the start of the Bishop Barrington Period. That is why you only got ďSeventh SonĒ on Williamís bapt in 1801.

 78 
 on: July 12, 2014, 08:18:58 PM 
Started by MichaelBR1965 - Last post by MichaelBR1965
Thanks for all that info - very interesting. I paid to look at the online records on the Durham records Online iste but they didn't really add any more information than I already had except that the Thomas Parker born in 1739 probably died a year later in 1740 :-
Burials, Gateshead District
Record Number: 286287.2
Location: Whickham
Church: St. Mary
Denomination: Anglican
8 Sep 1740 Thomas Parker, of Lowhand, son of William Parker


This now means that the Robert Parker who married Jane Thompson in 1778 is the one born in 1750
Baptisms, Gateshead District
Record Number: 374738.0
Location: Whickham
Church: St. Mary
Denomination: Anglican
9 Dec 1750 Thomas Parker, of Lowhand, son of William Parker by his wife Isabel


Of course it doesn't help me determine who his parents are as both potential fathers of Thomas (William Parkers) married an Isabel in the 1830's. I suppose even if I can find a Parish Record that says "first son" or "seventh son" , it won't help as they won't have the mother's maiden name !

 79 
 on: July 12, 2014, 06:32:27 PM 
Started by Cheryl - Last post by mildgene
On the OS Landranger Map no 88 [2010 revision] Newcastle upon Tyne at Grid ref.317/745 [just below the written words in red A192] is where Bates Cottages are/were; below Seaton Delaval and nearly at Holystone.  Surrounded now by modern housing.
Mildred Robson

 80 
 on: July 12, 2014, 06:15:59 PM 
Started by MichaelBR1965 - Last post by Geoff
Two thoughts which could possibly help, though neither are by any means certain.  First, the MIs (gravestones) of both Whickham (St Mary's) churchyard and Ryton (Holy Cross) churchyard have been recorded, so it would be of interest to look at them to find whether there are any relevant Parkers.

     Second, it is not known as well as it should be that there is an excellent set of tithe records from Ryton parish.  In effect they list, for most years between Tudor days and the early 19th century, every head of household, plus the size of his family.  The following (fictitious) entry would be typical: "Smith, John, Ux 3 fils" (Smith, John uxor [wife] & 3 children).  That is followed by a list of what he had that was titheable.  It is not only farmers who are listed but everyone in the parish (except for those from Winlaton, who were paid for en bloc by Crowley's Ironworks - a very special case).

     You could also look at the newly-becoming available Durham Diocesan Wills on the LDS site at FamilySearch, in case they had anything to leave - those who could afford the luxury of a gravestone were the "middle classes" who also tended to leave Wills.

     The lists of parish register entries available from the NDFHS, like those from local libraries etc, are not facsimiles but a relatively recent transcription.  If you really do want to see the original, then the FHS version would at least tell you, or confirm, the date, so you could order a copy from Durham Record Office, who hold the originals, without there being any ambiguity as to date.

                       Geoff


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